Is the eastern tiger salamander the largest species?

It seems like from my research the eastern tiger salamander, Ambystoma tigerinum tigerinum (spelling?) is the largest as it grows to a length of 14 inches in certain cases. The others like the barred tiger salamander supposedly only grow 12 inches in length.
Can anyone confirm or deny this from experiences with them as pets or finding them?

Also a subquestion
What ones have the most dramatic colors with most significant contrast? That is with bright yellow and dark black coloration.

The colors you're looking for would be a random variation of a.m. mavortium.

Just because it CAN grow that big doesn't mean they all do. My tigrinum are all less than 10 inches, while I've got a male mavortium who is closer to 12.

Never ever heard of a A.tigrinum growing to 14 inches, in fact its the A.t.mavortium (which used to be classed as the A.tigrinum) that grows a lot larger. My Male is about 8-9 inches in length and the majority I have seen in shops seem to be of a similar size to mine.

Oh ok thanks I was just going off of what Wikipedia said.

So if I were to try to obtain a potentially very large growing very colorful salamander I should be looking for a mavortium?

Now I've just got to find out where or how.

Vesp said:

Oh ok thanks I was just going off of what Wikipedia said.

So if I were to try to obtain a potentially very large growing very colorful salamander I should be looking for a mavortium?

Now I've just got to find out where or how.

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"Eastern tiger salamanders grow to a typical length of 6–8 inches (15–20 cm) .They can reach up to 14 inches (36 cm) in length, particularly neotenic individuals"

"Barred tiger salamanders typically grows from 6 - 8 1/2 inches,but it can grow to 12 inches long at the most."

Sorry, but you did sort of selectively read what you wanted to However, Wikipedia is notorious for not always being correct or updated. They still have Dendrobates Azureus (Blue Poison Dart Frogs) as a species and not a Dendrobates Tinctorius (Dyeing Dart Frog) sub-population, so its not always correct.

But yeah The A.t.mavortium is the sub-species of Tiger That you need to look out for which is more commonly found than the A.tigrinum (over in the UK anyway)

Actually, A. mavortium is now it's own species, the western tiger salamander.

Ambystoma mavortium melanostictum has local variation which ranges from black with lime green, lemon yellow, olive green, or orange, to overall olive with black spots. This is part of the argument for including A.m.melanostictum and A.m.diaboli in a single wider-ranging and more variable A.m.mavortium.

Neotenic specimens of Ambystoma mavortium have been recorded at 17 inches total length, and larger, with anecdotes of significantly larger. These records are decades old, and I don't know if they have been exceeded. I have seem some very large but unmeasured terrestrial A.m.melanostictum which likely had SVLs of eight inches or more.

What kind of price should I expect for a larger male tiger salamander?
I am going to get one, and with shipping the price is about $75 dollars. I feel like that's a lot for a single salamander. Any advice or help on that? I would love a cheaper source.

The animal you are purchasing is almost assuredly wild caught and being sold at a huge profit. Assuming that is the case, I wouldn't buy it. Trade in wild caught animals is unethical and in many parts of the US, illegal. In many states, you can collect your own within limits but not to sell. Check your state's Fish and Game laws.

Regarding size, here is a pix of my largest Eastern Tiger at just over 12 inches:

How is taking one out of the wild yourself less immoral then buying one that was taken out of the wild?

I approved your post because it is a good question (although answered in the forum more than once) but since it is an important policy of this website, I will start the discussion and others can add. Oh, I also edited out the rude sarcasm.

Buying wc is less ethical than catching your own because when you buy from someone selling them, they have most likely collected hundreds in their quest to make money, and probably done not a little damage to the site where they collected. Catching one or a few for yourself is much less damaging to the native population and to the environment.

There are other reasons and I will let others add to the discussion.

All of my tigers are rescues. 2 were rescued from someone's swimming pool, one came to me with a mangled tail, and another 2 were given to me by someone who was moving.

I wholeheartedly agree with Dawn. Responsible people collecting one or two animals from the wild is much better than those who rape and pillage a pond for every tiger in there, just to sell them at-profit.

Either way I need a colorful large male tiger salamander and I don't see any other option besides buying it as the ones around m, area are not very colorful and rare and few in between.

I am curious, why do you need a colourful large male tiger salamander?

Breeding project with a female Axolotls.

It's fairly easy to induce male tiger Salamanders to produce sperm and spermatophores with some hormone treatment. From all the documents and research articles I've read getting a tiger to breed with an axolotl ought not cost more than 300 dollars for everything including animals.


The goal is to eventually get a mostly all tiger salamander (at least 87.5% tiger salamander or better over the years) population that is fully neotenic from axolotl genes. If colors and patterns go through, which I have reason to believe that they will to a small extent, they will look really impressive, hopefully grow larger, and be more aggressive since it will have more fresher genetics and hopefully though a pipe dream also have hybrid vigor.

/braces self for **** storm about to happen because I don't have the same morals and opinions as others do.

Vesp said:

Breeding project with a female Axolotls.

It's fairly easy to induce male tiger Salamanders to produce sperm and spermatophores with some hormone treatment. From all the documents and research articles I've read getting a tiger to breed with an axolotl ought not cost more than 300 dollars for everything including animals.


The goal is to eventually get a mostly all tiger salamander (at least 87.5% tiger salamander or better over the years) population that is fully neotenic from axolotl genes. If colors and patterns go through, which I have reason to believe that they will to a small extent, they will look really impressive, hopefully grow larger, and be more aggressive since it will have more fresher genetics and hopefully though a pipe dream also have hybrid vigor.

/braces self for **** storm about to happen because I don't have the same morals and opinions as others do.

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What is the point of this, may I ask? This just seems like your playing around with thousands of years of evolution like some of these Morph crazed keepers who believe that having loads of albino's is natural lol Just in case you don't notice but I am completely against this idea, but if this is what you want to attempt, who am I to stop you, raging about the moralities of this situation isnt going to get anyone anywhere... but thinking again wouldn't surprise me if you were simply trolling to antagonise people lol

Vesp said:

Breeding project with a female Axolotls.

It's fairly easy to induce male tiger Salamanders to produce sperm and spermatophores with some hormone treatment. From all the documents and research articles I've read getting a tiger to breed with an axolotl ought not cost more than 300 dollars for everything including animals.


The goal is to eventually get a mostly all tiger salamander (at least 87.5% tiger salamander or better over the years) population that is fully neotenic from axolotl genes. If colors and patterns go through, which I have reason to believe that they will to a small extent, they will look really impressive, hopefully grow larger, and be more aggressive since it will have more fresher genetics and hopefully though a pipe dream also have hybrid vigor.

/braces self for **** storm about to happen because I don't have the same morals and opinions as others do.

Click to expand...

You say it's fairly easy, yet you're basing your opinion off of papers you have read. Are you doing this in a controlled lab setting? Will you be able to provide an environment where none of your hybrids will leave and enter the pet trade?

It concerns me that you are looking for brightly colored tiger salamanders, yet state the reason as being for a hybridization project for aspects other than color - an aggressively feeding, robust neotenic hybrid. You state the estimated cost of your project (which I think is woefully understated), which leads me to believe that money is a factor in your doing this - especially your previous statement that you may have no other route but to buy wild caught tigers.

It sounds to me that your intention is to profit off of these hybrids in some way. Please correct me if I am wrong.

It is not that I disapprove of the act of hybridization altogether - given that there is sufficient reason to do so other than profit or playing God with animals, and most importantly the responsible execution of the plan. By all your previous statements I do not believe you have responsible execution in mind.

There are a few reasons I'd like to do it, in order from most to least:
1. It will be neat. I've just always wanted to have a neotenic tiger salamander.

2. I want to try to such a thing - I've always loved the idea of messing around with genetics, evolution, etc.
3.(Sell them both as the neotenic type, and the terrestrial hybrids.
4. Breeding a terrestrial tiger salamander with an axolotl will produce both morphing and non-morphing offspring. Two neotenic axolotl/tiger salamanders, I believe will produce about 25% terrestrial salamanders.
>>> Why is this awesome?
--> Because we currently can't breed terrestrial tiger salamanders very easily, and people harvest them from the wild. If you have two axolotl/tiger hybrids, some of the offspring will morph creating terrestrial adults that can be sold, with out harming natural populations. Additionally, they can and will (if I have much to do with it, I'm not sure how dedicated I am to it just yet) will mix and morph with Albinos, Leutistic, golden, etc giving terrestrial salamanders tons of different looks, increased demand, etc... same with make for many (hopefully) different looking axolotls. This might hopefully make it more favorable to buy a cool GFP pink blotchy tiger salamander instead of taking one out of the wild.

3. I want to create controversy to help people realize how asinine certain aspects of conservation is. Why do we care about pure inbred axolotls? The genes will continue on through out hybrids, and possibly increase demand and interest as a pet -- this could in turn should cause increased interest in preserving and keeping the wild ones wild and whatever.

4. I want to create discussion about what a species really is - since IMO an Axolotl, and a Tiger Salamander is the same species. If they can breed, and produce fertile offspring = same species. Just a bit different. its a subspecies. This is analogues to Africans and Asians. Why aren't they considered different species, but various types of tiger salamanders are not? Its just silly.

I personally hate that they try to kill the "invasive" tiger salamander and its hybrids from the California tiger. The California tiger salamanders genes are still passed on, and since it is now more fit to survive, there will be more of them, in more places, etc...
Who the hell cares if it now slightly different genetics and different features?

Also, to address the "messing with evolution" thing - I am part of evolution. Its stupid to make this false distinction between nature and human. We evolved just like the salamanders did.

Our highways, as natural as a rain forest.


Me mixing two types of tiger salamanders genetics together is also just as natural.
And it helps form symbiotic relationships with other organisms and other ecosystems.
It helps more salamanders propagate their genes, more people learn and experience the science or pet hobby of keeping caudatas.

So much good comes from this in my opinion, and hopefully I can make some money while doing it -- I'd love to hear arguments on why we should try to preserve the inbred genetics of the domesticated "probably can't survive in the wild" Axolotl (Ambystoma domestica), but I have a feeling I will be able to blow them out of the water (the ideas, not the axolotls! ) and probably convince and convert a lot of you that are currently Anti-alteration to being pro-alteration.

I looked at this and honestly didn't know how i could argue with an argument that was like this. Upon great thought i will just give you some thoughts. The reason why people want axolotls and tigers are because they are axolotls and tigers. Not hybrids. The axolotls itself as it stands now in the wild is endangered. Why try to stop them from thriving in captivity. Tiger and axolotl hybrids are also very unappealing. Trying to sell them would be like trying to sell a brick. There is a reason why people don't do this. Because we don't need muddied gene pools this will do more harm to the species than help. Why anyone would want to kill two different species to make a muddied hybrid is beyond me. The genes that belong to and axolotl were developed naturally through evolution. The genes that were developed to a tiger belong to tiger sals. They don't belong to both and the sheer notion of doing this is idiotic.