Cloudy tank, good water parameters

[Brrich8814]

We have a super cloudy tank at the moment. It started about a week ago after a weekly water change. The cycle is still perfect and has been cycled for a couple of months now. Water parameters are 7.6 ph, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites , and 5 nitrates. Our axolotl is still in the tank and is eating and acting fine. I thought it could be a bacterial bloom due to the whitish/gray hazy color, but wouldn’t the water parameters be off in that case? Not sure if we should do a big water change to try to get it clear or if that will make it worse. It’s a 20gal long tank with two 20gal aquaclear HOB filters and a 40 gallon sponge filter. About a month ago I very lightly rinsed the media in one of the filters as it was getting very dirty and had pour flow.

 

[wolfen]

test your kh gh.
do you have hard water?
your mechanical filtration isn't fine enough to remove the debris from the water column, this is mostly noted by it being worse after a filter clean (because the media was clogged it was restricting the size of debris going into the tank)
place additional sponges over the intake for the hob.

 

[minorhero]

It could be a bacteria bloom or it could be debris as wolfen says. Bacteria blooms are more prone in tanks without substrate and when they are new, you have both. A bacteria bloom does not necessarily mean bad parameters. First don't be afraid of big water changes. You can change all the water multiple times a day with no issues so long as you treat your water (assuming its city water). I would start with that. If this is debris, as opposed to bacteria, this would help with that as well. When you rinse filters use safe water, the easiest is old tank water but you can use anything that doesn't have chlorine/chloramine in it.

I can no longer see what is in your tank, but what exactly is that thing next to the axolotl in the 2nd picture? If this were debris, it would have to come from something literally disintegrating in your tank for it to still be a problem after a month. Anything else should have settled down by now. So an idea of what else is in that tank might be helpful. A picture of your tank before it became cloudy would be easiest.

 

[Brrich8814]

It could be a bacteria bloom or it could be debris as wolfen says. Bacteria blooms are more prone in tanks without substrate and when they are new, you have both. A bacteria bloom does not necessarily mean bad parameters. First don't be afraid of big water changes. You can change all the water multiple times a day with no issues so long as you treat your water (assuming its city water). I would start with that. If this is debris, as opposed to bacteria, this would help with that as well. When you rinse filters use safe water, the easiest is old tank water but you can use anything that doesn't have chlorine/chloramine in it.

I can no longer see what is in your tank, but what exactly is that thing next to the axolotl in the 2nd picture? If this were debris, it would have to come from something literally disintegrating in your tank for it to still be a problem after a month. Anything else should have settled down by now. So an idea of what else is in that tank might be helpful. A picture of your tank before it became cloudy would be easiest.

This is the day we put him in. I removed the left hide and added a half terracotta pot instead because he was outgrowing it. The hide on the right was stated to be aquarium safe (or should be at least). I’m going to test the KH and GH today and see how it is. If it’s off I am completely lost how to adjust that. We do have a city water but have a whole house filtration unit so wondering if that could be an issue.

 

[Brrich8814]

View attachment 97889
This is the day we put him in. I removed the left hide and added a half terracotta pot instead because he was outgrowing it. The hide on the right was stated to be aquarium safe (or should be at least). I’m going to test the KH and GH today and see how it is. If it’s off I am completely lost how to adjust that. We do have a city water but have a whole house filtration unit so wondering if that could be an issue.

Just adding, I do always treat any water going into the tank with Prime before adding it.

 

[Brrich8814]

test your kh gh.
do you have hard water?
your mechanical filtration isn't fine enough to remove the debris from the water column, this is mostly noted by it being worse after a filter clean (because the media was clogged it was restricting the size of debris going into the tank)
place additional sponges over the intake for the hob.

I’m going to check the Kh and Gh today. I have no idea how to adjust it if it’s off, but I believe I may have a couple of things here that are used to do that (seachem equilibrium and seachem alkaline buffer). Will post results as soon as a I get them. I really thought I had enough filtration to keep up but If I added a sponge filter would that help at all?

 

[Brrich8814]

test your kh gh.
do you have hard water?
your mechanical filtration isn't fine enough to remove the debris from the water column, this is mostly noted by it being worse after a filter clean (because the media was clogged it was restricting the size of debris going into the tank)
place additional sponges over the intake for the hob.

Okay, Kh is at 9, Gh I’m not too sure but it looks like 2 or 3. After the first drop with the Gh it was pretty much clear with a slight yellow tint. Here are some pictures of my Gh results.

 

[wolfen]

your kh at 9 is a touch high where as your gh is bad, see here for require levels.. Water Quality Explained: How It Can Affect Your Axolotl's Health - WSAVA 2015 Congress - VIN
with filtration it isn't about whether there is enough or not but rather the type..
mechanical filtration tend to be sponge/foam or floss, as the water is forced through them the muck and debris get trapped and removed from the water, there are different levels of sponge/foam ranging from course to fine and floss which is very fine and known as water polisher, some bacteria will colonise the mechanical filtration but due to the large pore size/small surface area the colony is small, sponges/foam, floss should be washed/squeezed into old tank water, if there is fine debris in the water then the sponges are too course and aren't trapping the debris.
biological filtration tends to be ceramic, rock and sometimes plastic, this is what houses the bacteria which removes/converts ammonia and nitrites, the pores tend to be very small making the surface area very large allowing a large bacteria colony to grow, biological filtration is washed/rinsed in old tank water, if there is bacteria bloom in the water column then either there isn't enough biological filtration or the bacteria colony is under developed, this can be because of a sudden increase in nitrogen waste, inappropriate cycling, damage bacteria colony.
chemical filtration, this tends to be either carbon zeolite and sometimes resin, carbon removes chemicals medications and some metals, in the case of zeolite ammonia is removed, with resin nitrates are removed, chemical filtration is either replaced monthly or recharged depending on type.
cloudy water can be caused by calcium carbonate dropping out of the water (do you have issues with limescale) due to it's insolubility, with the gh test do the test until it changes colour then allow it to sit for a few minutes to see if it changes colour again.

 

[Brrich8814]

I probably should have given all this info in the beginning, but the filter below is what I currently have, I have two of them running in the tank. The filter media consists of a large sponge at the bottom, followed by a bag of carbon pack, then biomax (ceramic rings) on the top. It took 4 months to cycle the tank initially, then kept the cycle going strong for a month before adding the axolotl in. When I gently rinsed the media out, I made sure to rinse it in the tank water. Before it started to get cloudy, I was keeping up on picking up leftover waste a couple of times daily and have never had an ammonia spike once. It’s just so crazy, wondering if I may have over cleaned to cause this as well. I recently added a thin layer of filter floss between the carbon and biorings in an attempt to clear the water. I have the good levels for the Kh and Gh for axolotls but I don’t know how I should safely dose it in the tank to correct them or what’s safe to add while he is in the tank. Would the Kh and Gh being off like that make the water cloudy?

 

[minorhero]

None of those decorations would cause this problem. How often do you change the water and how much. Your gh/kh is not causing this problem.

 

[Brrich8814]

None of those decorations would cause this problem. How often do you change the water and how much. Your gh/kh is not causing this problem.

I have only been changing it once a week, about 15-20% as nitrates have not gone above 20 since it’s been cycled so far. It looses a good bit of water during the week due to the fans running, keeping the temp around 65-66, so maybe about a gallon or two additionally added during the week, always conditioned first. It has two bubblers in it now that were added after the cloudiness as I thought if it was a bacterial bloom it could affect the oxygen in the tank. But still the consistent cloudiness after the small water changes. It will clear slightly after the water change, then back to super cloudy.

 

[wolfen]

in the tank ie.. on the tanks side and bottom is there any dust or bad water marks above the water line, also run a finger over the glass below the water line and over the ornaments is it slimy.
if there is dust on the bottom of the tank and white water stains above the water line it will be calcium carbonate drop out.
if there is a slimy coat on the glass and ornaments it will be bacteria.
taking a closer look at one of your photos you have bubbles/biofilm so the likely hood would probably be bacteria bloom.

 

[Brrich8814]

in the tank ie.. on the tanks side and bottom is there any dust or bad water marks above the water line, also run a finger over the glass below the water line and over the ornaments is it slimy.
if there is dust on the bottom of the tank and white water stains above the water line it will be calcium carbonate drop out.
if there is a slimy coat on the glass and ornaments it will be bacteria.
taking a closer look at one of your photos you have bubbles/biofilm so the likely hood would probably be bacteria bloom.

Yes it definitely has a little bit of slime on the inside wall of the tank and little bubbles on top.

 

[minorhero]

So ya, its almost certainly a giant bacteria bloom. Here is what to do it.

1) Drain some water down into a bucket.
2) Clean all filters in the bucket of old tank water. Do a good job. A really good job. Do the foam, the ceramic media, everything. Do the sponge filter.
3) Put all the filters back then drain the water down (using a gravel vac to get rid of debris) till there is just enough in there that your axolotl is not left dry.
4) Refill.
5) Drain the water again all the way down as far as you can without leaving your axolotl dry
6) Refill.
7) In the future do a 50% water change once a week, and if you notice a filter getting too full of gunk, clean it completely


And that should clear things up within a week or two.

Why did this happen? My guess is you were feeding heavy or something fell into your tank. There is no way an AC20 should have clogged to the point it was overflowing a month after the tank was started otherwise. That would be if it were the only filter. But with 2 of them and a sponge filter.... The bacteria grew to accommodate the increase in 'food' for them, and that is why your water is so milky you can't see 2 inches into it.

By getting rid of all water in the tank and cleaning the filters you will be removing the supply of 'food' the bacteria are currently thriving on. In short, they will starve. In a week or 2 they will be gone.

Good luck.

 

[Brrich8814]

So ya, its almost certainly a giant bacteria bloom. Here is what to do it.

1) Drain some water down into a bucket.
2) Clean all filters in the bucket of old tank water. Do a good job. A really good job. Do the foam, the ceramic media, everything. Do the sponge filter.
3) Put all the filters back then drain the water down (using a gravel vac to get rid of debris) till there is just enough in there that your axolotl is not left dry.
4) Refill.
5) Drain the water again all the way down as far as you can without leaving your axolotl dry
6) Refill.
7) In the future do a 50% water change once a week, and if you notice a filter getting too full of gunk, clean it completely


And that should clear things up within a week or two.

Why did this happen? My guess is you were feeding heavy or something fell into your tank. There is no way an AC20 should have clogged to the point it was overflowing a month after the tank was started otherwise. That would be if it were the only filter. But with 2 of them and a sponge filter.... The bacteria grew to accommodate the increase in 'food' for them, and that is why your water is so milky you can't see 2 inches into it.

By getting rid of all water in the tank and cleaning the filters you will be removing the supply of 'food' the bacteria are currently thriving on. In short, they will starve. In a week or 2 they will be gone.

Good luck.

Thank you so much, I will give it a try and do a big water change and cleaning. You guys have been so helpful on here when I have not had any feedback from other places I’ve posted this on. Thinking about the food being in the tank and accumulating, I’m wondering if his waste is having an effect on it. I tubbed him for 4 months while the tank cycled and he pooped almost everyday. Since putting him in here, I haven’t seen it nearly as much but wondering if he’s actually stomping it out before I can get it as he used to do that in his tub. I just thought he may have not been going as much being transferred to the tank. He usually eats all the food/pellets I drop in there and I clean up any leftovers so that’s what I’m puzzled about it. But if that could be the cause I would just need to do a bigger water change weekly still like you suggested to combat that right?

 

[minorhero]

Thank you so much, I will give it a try and do a big water change and cleaning. You guys have been so helpful on here when I have not had any feedback from other places I’ve posted this on. Thinking about the food being in the tank and accumulating, I’m wondering if his waste is having an effect on it. I tubbed him for 4 months while the tank cycled and he pooped almost everyday. Since putting him in here, I haven’t seen it nearly as much but wondering if he’s actually stomping it out before I can get it as he used to do that in his tub. I just thought he may have not been going as much being transferred to the tank. He usually eats all the food/pellets I drop in there and I clean up any leftovers so that’s what I’m puzzled about it. But if that could be the cause I would just need to do a bigger water change weekly still like you suggested to combat that right?

Yes and gravel vac really well to get up the debris. If you don't have a water change system like a python or a pump, consider investing in one because otherwise changing this much water is miserable with buckets.

 

[wolfen]

even with bacteria bloom your nitrogen compounds are under control, be careful after doing such a big clean that it doesn't have a knock on effect and reduce you tanks/filters ability to remove/convert ammonia and nitrites, test levels 24hr after water change then a couple of days later.
if possible it might be a good idea to add some filter start (bottled bacteria, bacteria for ponds is more suitable than for tropical plus cheaper) directly to the hobs (wait 24hrs after water change for best effect), make sure your bio-media is fully under water (noticed in one of your photos the the media is above water level in one of your hobs).
as for increasing your gh you can use a solution such as modified 50% holtfreters or seachem replenish which will increase gh without increasing kh.
always make sure to dechlorinate the water before adding to tank and ensure good oxygenation.

 

[Brrich8814]

even with bacteria bloom your nitrogen compounds are under control, be careful after doing such a big clean that it doesn't have a knock on effect and reduce you tanks/filters ability to remove/convert ammonia and nitrites, test levels 24hr after water change then a couple of days later.
if possible it might be a good idea to add some filter start (bottled bacteria, bacteria for ponds is more suitable than for tropical plus cheaper) directly to the hobs (wait 24hrs after water change for best effect), make sure your bio-media is fully under water (noticed in one of your photos the the media is above water level in one of your hobs).
as for increasing your gh you can use a solution such as modified 50% holtfreters or seachem replenish which will increase gh without increasing kh.
always make sure to dechlorinate the water before adding to tank and ensure good oxygenation.

Yeah I was afraid of over cleaning the filters and tank decor too much at the same time. I had cleaned the one on the left side but the one on the right is the newest. When the sponges get dirty they start to float the media up in the filter cartridge. I’ll just clean that one on the right. I have some carbon filters in them too that I think I’m going to remove because they probably are not needed. We have a carbon filtration water system on our home that takes the chemicals out of the water the same way. Think I’m going to take it slow and do a big water change, then clean one filter at a time so I don’t mess up the cycle too much instead of cleaning everything at once. I’ll cry if I have to recycle this tank lol

 

[frogenjoyer]

I dealt with something very similar for over a year, and no advice I took from the very helpful and brilliant people on caudata ever worked for me (everything else they ever told me to do (especially wolfen) has been lifesaving though). You don't seem to have real plants in your tank, but in my case, I think one of the many plants or decorations I had in the tank introduced a weird type of algae that would photosynthesize and cloud up the water. It wasn't until I stopped using a light and heavily limited light exposure to the tank (limited light in the room, blocked off sides exposed to light, etc.). Don't use a light, limit light exposure from other sources for a few days, and it just might go away for you too.

 

[Brrich8814]

I dealt with something very similar for over a year, and no advice I took from the very helpful and brilliant people on caudata ever worked for me (everything else they ever told me to do (especially wolfen) has been lifesaving though). You don't seem to have real plants in your tank, but in my case, I think one of the many plants or decorations I had in the tank introduced a weird type of algae that would photosynthesize and cloud up the water. It wasn't until I stopped using a light and heavily limited light exposure to the tank (limited light in the room, blocked off sides exposed to light, etc.). Don't use a light, limit light exposure from other sources for a few days, and it just might go away for you too.

I have a tiny bit of pothos in the top but those were added post cloudy water as I was trying to hold off on doing too many water changes if it was a bloom and thought they might help absorb some of the nitrates during that time. The tank is in my son’s room that is kept dark with curtains during the day and we only turn lights on in the tank if we absolutely need to during cleaning and feeding. This has been a challenging experience for sure and I have just been absorbing all the good advice I can get. Glad to know I had the right people helping me out!