How deep do i make my newt and toad pool?

[MrGremlinMan]

I'm looking to add an amphibian pond to my yard, in pennsylvaina usa, using just underlament and liner, not really any filters, and adding rocks and a ton of vegetation. I see tons of common and a few spadefoots in my yard, but i also apparenlty have newts, as my mom found an eft one night last year. Not sure how it got to where i live but it did. I'm wondering if i need to go more than like 2 feet deep? I plan on leaf litter and tons of pond plankton esque organisms and then just seeing what shows up as well as a no mow zone around it for about 2 to 4 feet. I've heard they can live in vernal pools and im just wondering how they overwinter in general. Ive heard they can use vernal pools as well as permanent water, and im wondering if they will ever show up outside spring in a temporary pool. Ill draw up a sketch of what im planning if that helps.

 

[MnGuy]

I don't have a pond but I have been planning one for YEARS. The first thing I would say is you should definitely add a lot of plants to your pond. They filter out the nitrates and make the water safe for the amphibians. You can definitely do one without a filter, but you'll have to be very intentional about how you plan it. Adding lots of plants will help offset not having a filter.

The depth and size of your pond will depend on where it's located and your local climate. Shallow ponds that don't get enough shade will get too hot. Some amphibians may try to overwinter in the bottom of your pond, and may need more depth to safely survive the winter.

I'm planning a bigger pond that's 4-feet deep with no filtration. However, I plan to install a bunch of plants and throw in a solar-powered sprinkler that floats on the surface and spits up pond water in a "fountain" to aerate the water. I'm in the upper Midwest so I need the depth to help creatures safely overwinter at the bottom, and because we get incredibly hot in the summer.

Check out Garden Pond Forum for more information.

Good luck!

 

[MrGremlinMan]

I'm at this point planning more on a vernal pool style, and I know the animals have overwintered in my yard, just not sure where or how
I may go deeper, but ill be relying on marginals for shade. so i was thinking maybe half be about 2 feet deep, maybe deeper to account for the substrate. and a size of about 8x12 for the water itself, and then a 1 foot border for margiunals with like 4 inch depth.

 

[MnGuy]

I'm at this point planning more on a vernal pool style, and I know the animals have overwintered in my yard, just not sure where or how
I may go deeper, but ill be relying on marginals for shade. so i was thinking maybe half be about 2 feet deep, maybe deeper to account for the substrate. and a size of about 8x12 for the water itself, and then a 1 foot border for margiunals with like 4 inch depth.

One thing to keep in mind is that natural vernal pools have soil bottoms and often flood areas with plants, trees, etc., and a plastic-lined pond does not have the same natural filtration mechanisms.

 

[MrGremlinMan]

So after much researching of vernal pools, I've decided to make one properly. Remove leaf litter, pile it, same for topsoil, then move around the clay layer, line, and add some on top of the liner followed by tamping and topsoil. Sew wheat grass, mulch with leaf litter, and wait
Thats the super simplified version. It appears as though newts and frogs will utilize it, but what does it even more is spadefoots, and I know we have some of those. Ill be adding some herbs and whatnot as well, and maybe marginals. Also gonna throw a branch or 2 in.

 

[MnGuy]

So after much researching of vernal pools, I've decided to make one properly. Remove leaf litter, pile it, same for topsoil, then move around the clay layer, line, and add some on top of the liner followed by tamping and topsoil. Sew wheat grass, mulch with leaf litter, and wait
Thats the super simplified version. It appears as though newts and frogs will utilize it, but what does it even more is spadefoots, and I know we have some of those. Ill be adding some herbs and whatnot as well, and maybe marginals. Also gonna throw a branch or 2 in.

Keep us posted with pictures. I plan to dig my pond next spring.

 

[MrGremlinMan]

Keep us posted with pictures. I plan to dig my pond next spring.

I wanna try to have it ready by spring for the frogs
But since i have clay soil, I need it to be dry. Learned that when making my goldfish pond

 

[marivan]

I'm not sure of your climate, but it freezes in the winter, right? If so, I have a pond that we keep goldfish in all year round. I live near Toronto in Canada. We have a pond with two levels, and both of them are four foot deep at the deepest parts. They have shelves for plants. We have a pump and a filter that is made up of a box (in our case a plastic horse water tub) filled with green scrubbies. That is our filter. Our pond stays clear all year round now as we only top up the water with rainwater that we save in barrels from our roof. The chlorine in our city water kept screwing up the ph and giving us green, foggy water.
In the winter, we have a system of a bubbler to keep the water flowing (but we turn off the waterfall). This keeps an area of the pond ice free as the fish (and anything else in the pond) will suffocate without a breathing hole. This is sufficient for temperatures down to -10c, but then we also have a halogen bulb facing down to the water for when it falls below that. (it's on all winter, but helps keep that ice hole open when it gets to -30c, which it does at least a few times each winter. We haven't lost any fish in the winters with this system.
I lived in the UK for 14 years and had a pond there too. It got newts and frogs during the winter and we lost a lot of frogs one year because of an abnormally cold spell that froze the top completely.
I'm not sure if you need any of this information or if you are just doing the vernal type of pond, I just thought I'd give you my experience with outdoor all weather ponds. Good luck!

 

[MrGremlinMan]

I'm not sure of your climate, but it freezes in the winter, right? If so, I have a pond that we keep goldfish in all year round. I live near Toronto in Canada. We have a pond with two levels, and both of them are four foot deep at the deepest parts. They have shelves for plants. We have a pump and a filter that is made up of a box (in our case a plastic horse water tub) filled with green scrubbies. That is our filter. Our pond stays clear all year round now as we only top up the water with rainwater that we save in barrels from our roof. The chlorine in our city water kept screwing up the ph and giving us green, foggy water.
In the winter, we have a system of a bubbler to keep the water flowing (but we turn off the waterfall). This keeps an area of the pond ice free as the fish (and anything else in the pond) will suffocate without a breathing hole. This is sufficient for temperatures down to -10c, but then we also have a halogen bulb facing down to the water for when it falls below that. (it's on all winter, but helps keep that ice hole open when it gets to -30c, which it does at least a few times each winter. We haven't lost any fish in the winters with this system.
I lived in the UK for 14 years and had a pond there too. It got newts and frogs during the winter and we lost a lot of frogs one year because of an abnormally cold spell that froze the top completely.
I'm not sure if you need any of this information or if you are just doing the vernal type of pond, I just thought I'd give you my experience with outdoor all weather ponds. Good luck!

That is useful, but at this point im pretty sold on vernal pools. Theyre far easier and a better habitat because theyre scarce in the wild. Not to mention I can try to rear fairy shrimp in it. I'm going to attempt to raise a local species as my local dcnr said they may be collected with a fishing license.