Interested in first newt or salamander, any ideas?

[Gothic]

Hello!

I've kept many lizards as well as a couple skinks and frogs in the past, but now I'm interested in my first newt or salamander. I'm in college right now, and the dorm rules have a limit of 10 GAL for an aquarium, but no rules for terrarium size so I could feasibly have a larger paludarium setup with just 10 gallons of water and a land portion, which is what I'm leaning towards because I've always wanted to build a paludarium. Alternatively, they aren't allowed to look in closed containers so I could find a large cabinet with a removable front or something like that so that I can hide a larger setup if the 10 gallons + terrestrial part wouldn't work.

So here are my main questions:
-What is a good species to keep in 10 gallons worth of water?
I'd like a species that would interact with both portions of the setup: land and water. This isn't a hard requirement though.
I'd also like to be able to have things like a shrimp or two and some aquatic snails in the water portion, isopods + springtails and maybe some small terrestrial snails in the land portion. Shrimp are not a need. Would maybe even like a couple small fish but that might be too much.
Finally, it would be nice to be able to culture my own food source. This is not a need but it would be nice to not have to buy new food all the time since I'd likely be ordering online due to having few 'exotic' pet stores in my area down here.

I'd also like to start preparing for the cost of the setup if possible, so that I can save and begin buying things, so if anyone has recommendations for good tanks, plants, etc. that would be awesome!

Thank you!

 

[stanleyc]

I've mostly kept newts aquatically, so I will only say a couple things on that. You can comfortably house 2 adult newts of most species in a 10 gallon if they are totally aquatic and the entire tank is aquatic. You can have a small floating island or rock breaking the surface in case they want to get out of the water. Some of the commonly kept species, at least in the US, that can be kept completely aquatic as adults are Cynops orientalis, Cynops pyrrhogaster, Cynops cyanurus, Ichthyosaura alpestris, Notophthalmus viridescens, Lissotriton vulgaris, and I believe at least some of the Triturus species can be kept fully aquatic as adults. You should confirm when you have one in mind.

I keep ramshorn snails and cherry shrimp (Neocaridina) with my newts. You should be careful keeping multiple species with your newts, it can cause problems.

Earthworms are a great food item for newts and other salamanders, and should be pretty easy to culture.

For aquatic plants, java fern, java moss, elodea, hornwort, and frogbit are some of my favorites. Make sure you know the requirements for plants that you want to have in your aquarium, I think many that are commonly sold are tropical plants and might not do well in a cool water newt tank.

 

[stanleyc]

Also, if you have any local fish stores nearby, they should have frozen bloodworms, which are a great food source as well. You should feed multiple foods to maintain a compelte diet nutritionally.

 

[minorhero]

Does your dorm room have air conditioning? I know mine did not and there were days when it would easily reach 80 degrees in the dorm room or higher during the day. This would kill most species of newt/salamander. These are critters that move to new water sources to stay cool and/or dig into the ground to keep cool during the summer months. I would not try to keep one in a dorm room if you don't think the room will stay in the low 70s during the warmer months.

While its nice to imagine a salamander or newt freely going back and forth in the water, the reality is somewhat different. Most critters are either going to be aquatic and occasionally sit on a rock, or be terrestrial and only go into the water once they are both old enough to breed and in breeding season, then stay there until breeding season ends and then go back to land. In other words, they are frankly not a great choice if you want the land and water portions being used regularly. Salamanders are problematic as well because they all want to dig into the ground or hide under things 100% during the day. So they are not the greatest pets in my opinion. Aquatic newts on the other hand are bold and interactive. They make much better pets.

I would be surprised if you are actually allowed as big a terrarium as you want. I mean... if someone has a 500 gallon iguana tank, are they really ok with that? I'd double check that with your resident life office before embarking on that kind of adventure. 10 gallon tanks are plenty big for a lot of interesting stuff.

Anyway, tl;dr, if you have AC then get an aquatic newt and keep it 100% aquatic. Alpine Newts or firebelly newts are great choices for a 10 gallon tank. You could keep 1 or 2 with no issues in there with a fan blowing on the surface to cool the water further down to the 60s.

If you are deadset on a paludarium. Then look into vampire crabs. They are both small enough to fit into a 10 gallon tank quite easily, and will both need and use both land and water portions regularly. They will breed in the water and their babies will live there for a time, and they all molt in the water as well. They also are tropical and will want temperatures in the high 70s to 80s which is much more doable in a dorm room. Good luck.

 

[Gothic]

Does your dorm room have air conditioning? I know mine did not and there were days when it would easily reach 80 degrees in the dorm room or higher during the day. This would kill most species of newt/salamander. These are critters that move to new water sources to stay cool and/or dig into the ground to keep cool during the summer months. I would not try to keep one in a dorm room if you don't think the room will stay in the low 70s during the warmer months.

While its nice to imagine a salamander or newt freely going back and forth in the water, the reality is somewhat different. Most critters are either going to be aquatic and occasionally sit on a rock, or be terrestrial and only go into the water once they are both old enough to breed and in breeding season, then stay there until breeding season ends and then go back to land. In other words, they are frankly not a great choice if you want the land and water portions being used regularly. Salamanders are problematic as well because they all want to dig into the ground or hide under things 100% during the day. So they are not the greatest pets in my opinion. Aquatic newts on the other hand are bold and interactive. They make much better pets.

I would be surprised if you are actually allowed as big a terrarium as you want. I mean... if someone has a 500 gallon iguana tank, are they really ok with that? I'd double check that with your resident life office before embarking on that kind of adventure. 10 gallon tanks are plenty big for a lot of interesting stuff.

Anyway, tl;dr, if you have AC then get an aquatic newt and keep it 100% aquatic. Alpine Newts or firebelly newts are great choices for a 10 gallon tank. You could keep 1 or 2 with no issues in there with a fan blowing on the surface to cool the water further down to the 60s.

If you are deadset on a paludarium. Then look into vampire crabs. They are both small enough to fit into a 10 gallon tank quite easily, and will both need and use both land and water portions regularly. They will breed in the water and their babies will live there for a time, and they all molt in the water as well. They also are tropical and will want temperatures in the high 70s to 80s which is much more doable in a dorm room. Good luck.

Yes, they have good AC and my roommates generally like to keep it at 68 degrees but I could definitely convince them to move it up a couple degrees if that would be better for the animal (thermostat won't go below 68).

It's alright if there isn't a species that would go between water and land, I'm fine with just having a small land portion with a few plants for decoration, maybe meaning just a rock or two with some air plants.

I've read the handbook and the only thing they say about tanks in any capacity is that aquariums can only be 10 gallons. I've also had routine room checks before and they definitely wouldn't measure the size so I could get away with something a few gallons larger most likely but not some crazy big setup. Now if I were keeping a large animal of bearded dragon size or similar, they may have a problem with that, but that's not the plan. If 10 gallons really is good for most species, I may just stick to that or get a slightly larger tank and just fill it with 10 gallons of water to have a little extra room.

I've been looking at firebelly or alpine in the past, I just find so many different opinions on what conditions they need and I would always find threads on here that seemed to know what's up so I joined this forum.
Thanks for the response!

 

[Gothic]

I've mostly kept newts aquatically, so I will only say a couple things on that. You can comfortably house 2 adult newts of most species in a 10 gallon if they are totally aquatic and the entire tank is aquatic. You can have a small floating island or rock breaking the surface in case they want to get out of the water. Some of the commonly kept species, at least in the US, that can be kept completely aquatic as adults are Cynops orientalis, Cynops pyrrhogaster, Cynops cyanurus, Ichthyosaura alpestris, Notophthalmus viridescens, Lissotriton vulgaris, and I believe at least some of the Triturus species can be kept fully aquatic as adults. You should confirm when you have one in mind.

I keep ramshorn snails and cherry shrimp (Neocaridina) with my newts. You should be careful keeping multiple species with your newts, it can cause problems.

Earthworms are a great food item for newts and other salamanders, and should be pretty easy to culture.

For aquatic plants, java fern, java moss, elodea, hornwort, and frogbit are some of my favorites. Make sure you know the requirements for plants that you want to have in your aquarium, I think many that are commonly sold are tropical plants and might not do well in a cool water newt tank.

I think I'd like to do one of the Cynops (fire belly) varieties. I'm not sure if one is easier to care for or would be more social than any others, or something like that. They seem most easily accessible since I wouldn't have an unlimited budget and from what I can find Alpine newts are 3-5x more expensive usually. The triturus look pretty cool but I read somewhere they reach 7 inches and that seems a little big for the setup I'd be doing. You think a pair of fire bellies would do well in 10 gallons of water? I'd love to have a pair as long as they'd both do well. I also know sometimes males of some species get aggressive during breeding season or something like that, is there anything to worry about like that?

Those snails and shrimp are cool and I'd definitely look at some, but do you know about Nerite snails? I've always liked them and I wonder if they'd work well in a setup like that.

Earthworms with some trips out for bloodworms sounds easy enough, there is definitely at least one fish store where I should be able to get them nearby. Are there any other food sources that I should include that would make for a more varied diet.

Thanks for the plant recommendations, I'll definitely do my research before getting any.

Thank you!

 

[stanleyc]

I think I'd like to do one of the Cynops (fire belly) varieties. I'm not sure if one is easier to care for or would be more social than any others, or something like that. They seem most easily accessible since I wouldn't have an unlimited budget and from what I can find Alpine newts are 3-5x more expensive usually. The triturus look pretty cool but I read somewhere they reach 7 inches and that seems a little big for the setup I'd be doing. You think a pair of fire bellies would do well in 10 gallons of water? I'd love to have a pair as long as they'd both do well. I also know sometimes males of some species get aggressive during breeding season or something like that, is there anything to worry about like that?

Those snails and shrimp are cool and I'd definitely look at some, but do you know about Nerite snails? I've always liked them and I wonder if they'd work well in a setup like that.

Earthworms with some trips out for bloodworms sounds easy enough, there is definitely at least one fish store where I should be able to get them nearby. Are there any other food sources that I should include that would make for a more varied diet.

Thanks for the plant recommendations, I'll definitely do my research before getting any.

Thank you!

Yes, you’re right, triturus would probably be a bit cramped in a 10 gallon. A pair of Chinese firebellies (Cynops orientalis), blue tail firebellies (Cynops cyanurus), or Japanese firebellies (Cynops pyrrhogaster) would all do well in a 10 gallon. The Japanese firebellies get a little bit bigger, I think up to 5.5 inches for the females, while the other 2 stay under 4 inches. Alpines also get a little bigger, around the size of the Japanese firebellies. So if you’re going for maximum comfort, the orientalis or cyanurus I think are the best choices. All 3 species are not territorial or aggressive. You may see them nipping at each other during feeding, but this is normal and will usually not result in any harm. Just keep them well fed and you should be fine. You should still provide some hides in case they want some time away from the other newt and also just to feel safe.

I’m not familiar with nerite snails, so I can’t comment on that.

You can also culture daphnia. Pros are they’re very nutritious, you’ll get to see your newts chasing them around, displaying some of their natural hunting behaviors, and the carotenoids they contain will bring out the orange/red color in their bellies. Con is that they’re small, so probably won’t be much more than a snack unless you have a pretty large culture and can feed a lot of them. You’ll also need to culture them in water, but you can get a culture going in something as small as a 1 gallon jar. Maybe you can get away with it in your dorm. Of course the yield would be pretty small, but it’s still worth trying if you’re up for it in my opinion.

Live Tubifex worms and black worms are some other options. They’re also very nutritious and beneficial to have in their diet, and could probably more realistically be a significant part of the diet than daphnia. Ive never cultured them so I don’t know how that would go, but they’re not uncommon at fish stores, so you might want to see if your local store carries them. I get tubifex 2 ounces at a time, keep them in the fridge in some water. Rinse with fresh water every day or so, lasts me close to a month.

I’ve fed my newts mostly tubifex and earthworms, and occasionally daphnia and frozen bloodworms. If you’re up for it, always aim to provide greater variety, granted of course they’re all high nutrition foods. I’m currently trying to feed more daphnia and bloodworms, and also adding frozen mysis shrimp to their diet.

68 F for most of the year should be great for those species. No need to raise it higher. It can even go lower during the winter. My tanks can get as low as the high 50s in the cold months, and will be in the mid to high 60s the rest of the year. The water rarely gets into the 70s here.

 

[Gothic]

Yes, you’re right, triturus would probably be a bit cramped in a 10 gallon. A pair of Chinese firebellies (Cynops orientalis), blue tail firebellies (Cynops cyanurus), or Japanese firebellies (Cynops pyrrhogaster) would all do well in a 10 gallon. The Japanese firebellies get a little bit bigger, I think up to 5.5 inches for the females, while the other 2 stay under 4 inches. Alpines also get a little bigger, around the size of the Japanese firebellies. So if you’re going for maximum comfort, the orientalis or cyanurus I think are the best choices. All 3 species are not territorial or aggressive. You may see them nipping at each other during feeding, but this is normal and will usually not result in any harm. Just keep them well fed and you should be fine. You should still provide some hides in case they want some time away from the other newt and also just to feel safe.

I’m not familiar with nerite snails, so I can’t comment on that.

You can also culture daphnia. Pros are they’re very nutritious, you’ll get to see your newts chasing them around, displaying some of their natural hunting behaviors, and the carotenoids they contain will bring out the orange/red color in their bellies. Con is that they’re small, so probably won’t be much more than a snack unless you have a pretty large culture and can feed a lot of them. You’ll also need to culture them in water, but you can get a culture going in something as small as a 1 gallon jar. Maybe you can get away with it in your dorm. Of course the yield would be pretty small, but it’s still worth trying if you’re up for it in my opinion.

Live Tubifex worms and black worms are some other options. They’re also very nutritious and beneficial to have in their diet, and could probably more realistically be a significant part of the diet than daphnia. Ive never cultured them so I don’t know how that would go, but they’re not uncommon at fish stores, so you might want to see if your local store carries them. I get tubifex 2 ounces at a time, keep them in the fridge in some water. Rinse with fresh water every day or so, lasts me close to a month.

I’ve fed my newts mostly tubifex and earthworms, and occasionally daphnia and frozen bloodworms. If you’re up for it, always aim to provide greater variety, granted of course they’re all high nutrition foods. I’m currently trying to feed more daphnia and bloodworms, and also adding frozen mysis shrimp to their diet.

68 F for most of the year should be great for those species. No need to raise it higher. It can even go lower during the winter. My tanks can get as low as the high 50s in the cold months, and will be in the mid to high 60s the rest of the year. The water rarely gets into the 70s here.

Thanks for all the advice on food culturing! Will most likely end up with a pair of Chinese or Blue Tail firebellies then.

 

[Gothic]

Additional question: would this be an adequate tank or are the dimensions too thin/shallow for the newts? Long Low-Iron Rimless Aquarium - 12 Gallon It's very long and I feel like it'll display well but I also want it to be a good home that will provide enough room for them.

 

[minorhero]

Additional question: would this be an adequate tank or are the dimensions too thin/shallow for the newts? Long Low-Iron Rimless Aquarium - 12 Gallon It's very long and I feel like it'll display well but I also want it to be a good home that will provide enough room for them.

It can work fine, but keep in mind, you need a top that goes all the way around. Newts, including all species mentioned thus far, can climb glass. Not well, but well enough to get out. For this reason most people use standard sized tanks so they can use off the shelf mesh lids. If you go with a rimless tank you will need to make your own top or your newts will escape and die shortly after.