Paramesotriton sp. N. Viet Nam

[FrogEyes]

Interesting discussion! I can add a few things;

Genetic relations between Paramesotriton in south China - north Vietnam are still not resolved. It is known that P. deloustali is very closely related to P. guangxiensis, and the two might be/could be the same species, or turn out to be recently diverged species (a matter of species concepts probably). In the recent description of P. ermizhaoi however, a very close relation between P. fuzhongensis and P. guangxiensis is found. The key is as always to sample a lot more populations in that area!
When P. guangxiensis was described, it was only compared to P. chinensis. Additionally, when P. fuzhongensis was described it was only compared to P. guangxiensis. A good comparision between deloustali and guangxiensis is still lacking, if all the variation isn't just intraspecific. Salamanders which are 100% sure from the guangxiensis area can be viewed at Herping paramesotriton arnaud.

At the Dutch Sal. meeting a few weeks ago it was mentioned that belly pattern of at least P. deloustali (Tam Dao) can change with age; the red slowly fades away (nothing to do with carotene). So finding a few old or a few young individuals can result in biased data.

Thanks for showing the photos and info, and keep it coming!

One of the big sources of confusion was an error in one of the recent genetic studies. P.guanxiensis was found to be closely related to P.deloustali because the specimens of the latter were misidentified. They were not topotypic, but were in actuality from northeastern Cao Bang province. Topotypic [Vinh Phuc province] specimens were used in other studies, in which they did NOT come out closest to P.guanxiensis. In other words, two different species were used in comparison. That means the northeastern Cao Bang animals are not P.deloustali, but they might not be P.guanxiensis either. In other parts of Cao Bang, "true" P.deloustali occurs, though more extensive genotyping is needed, given that Paramesotriton is now known from most provinces of northern Vietnam east of the Red River. Given the current records, it would not be surprising to find P.deloustali in Yunnan and Guangxi, nor to find P.guanxiensis marginally in northeastern Vietnam. There is a large gap in Guangxi and Guangdong between these two and their closest relatives, P.yunwuensis and P.fuzhongensis, which suggests either greater distributions or more species of the complex remain to be discovered.

FYI, there appear to be errors in the maps of Stuart & Papenfuss 2002, and in Wu et al 2009, which I will be asking the authors about.